So, like. The Black Paint in Colour Splash. I see you've used it's stated by Huey as being "beyond toxic", but did you not catch exactly what he meant? At the end of the game, the Black Paint was shown to have taken the essence of Peach, and the void of space is also made out of Black Paint.
Aha, interesting idea there. Hmm, maybe one day I'll have a profile of Paper Mario from Sticker Star onwards (Maybe it's headcanon, but... it looks to me like Sticker Star, Paper Jam Bros and Colour Splash are their own canon.) and then I'll be sure to include that.
Me and a friend discussed the canonicity of Mario, and seeing as Miyamoto said that Mario can adapt to play any role, according to Miyamoto he is like an actor with no set canon, that even Mario and Paper Mario are one and the same, and he is just capable of playing the role of a book character in a paper book. Why does Paper Jam have both Paper Mario and Mario side by side? For the same reason that Mario and Doctor Mario have appeared side by side, before, and that's because Nintendo just does that.
The only other theory I have as to how they could co-exist is an ability that Mario demonstrates in the manga to be able to make duplicates of himself with extra lives that he has. And if he's able to do that, then I don't see it as too farfetched that Mario can play both roles at the same time.
As far as the latter three Paper Mario games being a different canon than the first three Paper Mario games, well, elements connecting all Paper Mario games together exist, but I see your point, seeing as there was much more lore and item style, and there was always the cookbook, and you had eight chapters, and all of that in the first three, and then in the latter three, there was a similar setting and a similar style and gameplay.
However, I think, personally, that only Sticker Star and Colour Splash are connected, and Paper Jam happens after Super Paper Mario.
Sorry for late reply, it seems my comment didn't post.
Hmm, well... yeah, Mario canon is a bit tricky at time, and Miyamoto's statements don't help, but I can see why you'd come to that conclusion. Plus, I know the exact thing you're referring to with the Super Mario Kun manga, but... what about when he runs out of extra lives?
Hmm, I feel like Paper Jam Bros is more connected to Sticker Star, such as because it takes the characters from those games (i.e. Shiny Petey, Tower Power Pokey, Paper Junior and Paper Kamek), and maybe this isn't the best argument, but it's on the 3DS, but apparently Paper Mario has a universe level feat in there, which does feel more like the original 3, haha.
EDIT: Also, whilst on the topic of Paper Mario Canon, the intro to Super Paper Mario makes it sound like [Paper?] Bowser kidnaps Peach often, even though from what we've seen he's only done so once, so... maybe there are unseen paper adventures, or it truly is linked to the main canon!
Uhm, yeah, I'm not sure why Mario is both, in the game, stated to be things like the Prince of Destiny and the Hero of Love and Purity and other things of that nature, and then goes to Hell when he dies. XD
I remember bringing that up looooooong ago. I believe it was amount one of my first comments on wikia, actually. Then again, he wasn't really dead... but it would be an explanation to how he can casually return from game overs in the later games.
Also, apparently you think Mario is a really high tier?
Aha, I had actually just seen that point thrown around. And you know what? I don't know... a reference to string theory doesn't mean the entire verse is 11D, so... like I'm a bit iffy about that. Maybe it's because I never got past the Overthere (I believe I had something important on, and never got back to the game since), but even in clips, I can't remember that all possibilites statement. Plus, there is the fact that "All Worlds" is also called "the universe", but I don't want to downplay on that scale when you consider that... I'm probably missing something that explains it involves all those other universes in Mario (probably in the same quote you had).
So... I don't know entirely... But I'm leaning towards that 11D/High 1-C stuff being a bit extreme. Meanwhile, the whole "Dimentio exerted the same force as the Void in Castle Bleck"... does appear so... As does some other the other stuff they say to scale Mario to the Void, which... is... wow. I don't what to think of it entirely, but... If I sell soup and label it "String Theory Soup", I don't think our universe will be 11D...
It wouldn't make sense if they were using the term dimension in that first statement synonymous to universe, because world is already there in place of that. "All existence... All universes... All universes...". You get what I'm saying.
They also literally use the word jigen (次元) in the actual Japanese text, which means "dimension" referring to spatiotemporal dimensions, such as the ones described in things like String Theory. Sunpou (寸法) means dimension in the other sense, and if you look it up, you'll find nothing regarding String Theory, but if you look up jigen, you'll find things regarding M-theory.
Okay, great, I agree with you on the first link, because it's outright stated, but... all possibilities is still something I can't see... Was this just added in because it would make sense that they're just saying "all of this", "all of that" and so we said "all of everything then? Possibilities should count". Or is there something that really proves it?
Making it as if they never existed at all... could be poetic, but saying that is just as speculative as saying it should be taken literally, and due to it basically saying everything's going to go... it makes more sense to agree, I suppose.
I actually just took a screenshot of the String Theory Soup stuff to discuss but... yeah, your link works just as well. Now, I'm not saying this stuff is meaningless, but... once again, if I were to make a soup and call it "String Theory Soup", it wouldn't prove String Theory. Not to mention, it doesn't even cover this in it's bio. It's a soup that gives you knowledge beyond what a human should be capable of knowing, and this is likely what "all the secretes of the universe" is referring to. That's probably beyond human comprehension, and thus fits perfectly well. String Theory Soup just makes it sound cooler.
With that being said, the human brain is not able to imagine or comprehend 4 dimensional stuff, or 3 dimensional vision (We, as 3D beings, have 2D vision. For example, we can only see one side of a building. Thus 4D beings would have 3D vision, but we have no idea what that would look like, because our brains aren't that powerful), which in turn means you could say "well, it lets you know what 4D things are like. And whilst on dimensions, why not say 11, because String Theory?"... But this kind of seems like nit-picking and speculation to me. I wouldn't blame anyone for making such an argument however, but... it might just grant knowledge rather than upgrade the brain.
And for your second comment, I can see what you mean, and agree. I never thought otherwise. But... that doesn't equal 11D if that is your point.
I'm not saying it does. And no, the description of it is probably made to correspond to the name. String Theory being the secrets of the universe that people learn upon consuming it.
The reason VS Battles rejected it wasn't because of speculation, it was because the item is an irrelevant item. Meaning, if this item held any relevance, but was basically the same exact item as it is, it would have been usable. But I don't see why that means that the verse doesn't have 11 dimensions if the String Theory is indeed what the universe abides by. The point I'm trying to make is that, yeah, if you called some soup you made String Theory Soup, then that wouldn't mean anything. But if Word of God narration says said soup contains the secrets of the universe, then it isn't just speculation.
And I don't remember where the "all possibilities" statement is, but that really wasn't a relevant part I was trying to emphasise.
Well, the whole fifth paragraph was basically me just spouting out a counter-argument to my own that came out of my head, so... yeah, just me being silly. Which in turn means I was calling /that/ speculation and not the actually point you were making. As such, I'm not trying to debunk it on the ground of speculation, but because it doesn't have much to it. I know that this item isn't very elaborted on, but... "the bigger than claim, the bigger the proof" is an argument I like to go by.
I'm not going to reject the item because it doesn't have relevance to the franchise, no I think even the smallest things matter. I'm surprised this was their explanation too: I mean, look at Star Level Pikmin (series, not species) because of a single item. Albeit, the difference between these two is because one outright stated it, and one was the name. I mean, I don't know where you stand on Koopa the Quick's "Mach 1 shoes", but... I think you can at least see why that could be seen as a brand-name, rather than their speed. Point I'm trying to make those, is I am not rejecting one time things.
What I am rejecting is that this is "Word of God". Now, the difference here is like... Word of God is more statements that explain situations otherwise realitvely untouched upon. For example, the AP of Bowser's Galaxy Reactor. Meanwhile, this is an item's name... That doesn't really class towards WoG. It's... a name. The secrets of the universe, meanwhile, are likely correlated with the knowledge it brings to those who feast on it. If you become aware of secrets, you're going to become more knowledgable. And, that's it. If it elaborated on the idea of String Theory, I could see this being a thing. But it doesn't, it doesn't even mention the theory in the bio. What it does mention is that it gives knowledge and contains the secret of the universe, and I feel these go hand in hand without having to shoehorn in the name of the soup... because the name of the soup doesn't make it 11D.
As for the "all possibilites", no worries, I just wanted to know if you knew, because it was bugging me a little that I couldn't find it.
Well, I mean, I can see your point on the subject, but I don't think the name is meaningless. I feel like the name would be meaningless without the description, and the vice versa, but because they both exist and support each other, that's why I believe that it's saying what I believe it's saying.
I tried looking into them, but couldn't really find much... I guess first hand research may fall flat towards second hand in that those sources could leave every rock unturned, but I do think it's pretty interesting! I'd be happy to hear your thought, but I'm not sure if I could bring any meaningful arguments to the table
As for what topics, well... I did expand upon the power of creating the Secrets from Mario Sunshine today, although as such it actually got a lower rating than what MetalMario875's rating (Who... I must admit introduced me to the Doppler Effect being present as well as the nebula clouds), but... it did recently get debunked to only 3-C by a friend of mine. If you were one to disagree with it, I guess that could be something to discuss. I mean, anything interesting and Mario related I'll be down for, but... I can't promise I'll all know that lore-y stuff.
Okay, regarding the secret levels, some of them literally contain multiple nebulae that would have galaxies in them, and even if they were only the size of galaxies, they would contain time, which would make creating one of them a High 3-A feat. The Doppler Effect kind of confirms they're probably universes, though, and at the very least hold several galaxies. And yeah, Metal discusses these things like this with me, too.
Now I've read that Doc, and the reason I disagree with the time being leeched from the real universe is that they pass through a white void when transitioning to the Secret levels. You might ask after that point how we even know they have time in them at all, and that's because Time Attack exists in them after you beat them the first time and return to the where you must collect seven red coins within a time limit.
And if you don't know who the Ancients are, they're the race of people who's names start with "Mer", like Merlow, Merlin, and Merluvlee. That race of people created the Pure Hearts, and predestined the events of Super Paper Mario, but I also believe they created the Star Rod and maybe the Crystal Stars, and also predestined the events of the first two Paper Mario games.
Concerning nebulea, well... turns out they're primordial stars, not primordial galaxies, which does reduce the effect of the point I made. I've also looked into their size before, and compared to galaxies, they are generally quite disappointing. ( https://youtu.be/6KjMEVM5QLk ) With that being said, I have found some nebulae that have been around galaxy sized, but... those don't quite match the cloudy ones. This is one of the one of the things that got debunked by my friend. I agree with you on the Doppler Effect, but... turns out I was too vague on it. So... I'll have to get out my old physics stuff and look into it again.
As for the time, I was really unsure about how it would work. They appear to be pocket dimensions, so they'd appear to leech time, but they are also referred to as "another world", implying independence. I really like the point you made about Time Attack though, it's a great point. I suppose that white void could also be a hint to indepenence too, but I'm not sure... As for holding several galaxies, I feel it should, but we only have concrete proof for galaxy level and rest has been debunked a bit.
Although, the question is that... does a multi-galaxy with time really make High 3-A? How so?
And yeah, I knew those lot would be the Ancients, but I'm glad there was reassurance. I'm quite intregued as to why you think they could have created the Star Rod and Crystal Hearts though! Although, didn't the Star Spirits have something to do with the former?
"High Universe level: Characters who have an infinite degree of 3-dimensional power. Alternately 4-dimensional power that is shown as completely qualitatively superior to 3-Dimensional beings, but is less than universal in scale. Or that allows them to create large parts of a universal continuum. Take note that 4-D power should logically always be superior to countably infinite 3-D power, so characters within this tier are not necessarily comparable. Also take note that we consider most small scale time-space abilities as hax, not as AP."
A galaxy sized continuum would be High 3-A, but I believe there is enough evidence for them to be considered alternate universes, like the point you brought up calling them worlds.
And statements in the first two Paper Mario games imply it, spoken by both the people in the games who play the role of the "wise person who is always at the bar".
"In Star Haven, there's a treasure called a Star Rod. According to legend, it was made with ancient magic." - Russ T.
Star Rod is probably made by the same Ancient Tribe that made the Pure Hearts. This is further supported by members of the Ancient Tribe collecting Star Pieces in the three games.
"Just the other day, I was fortunate enough to read the most fascinating book. This book said, and I quote..."...the Evil King chortles, and a sacred rod and seven lights fade into darkness. A lovely maiden rises to the heavens."But lo! A hero clad in red appears and travels the world. He gathers around him eight who are pure of heart."This hero restores the seven lights, and they raise him high into the sky."On the airy heights, the hero clashes with the Evil King. The lovely maiden wishes..."That's how it ended!Somebody had torn out the rest of the pages! Now I'll never know the ending! What kind of no-good tears up books!?!I think I have heard of this kind of story but I'm not sure where I read it..." - Russ T.
The events were predestined, but it was unknown whether or not it was the Ancients.
"I heard this one from my ol' grampa... It's a legend about one who will come to this town some day in the future. He will come when the sky grows dark again... Clothed in red and blue, the hero will bear seven stars and face the darkness... I don't know what that's supposed to mean, but I see that you wear red and blue. If the hero turned out to be you... Well, I guess that would be a bit much, huh?" - Wonky
The events of The Thousand Year Door were also predestined, and this is more likely the Ancients' doing because of it being a legend, even from the perspective of Wonky's grandpa, and Wonky is an old man.
"You've heard of Star Pieces, of course... Yes, they're no less than pieces of actual stars that have fallen to earth... They're so pretty and shiny that anyone who stumbles on one turns into a collector. If you want to find some, just check out all the nooks of each area you visit. They always seem to be slightly hidden, know what I mean?" - Wonky
On a side note, Star Pieces are made of actual stars.
"You've heard about the legendary treasure hidden beneath Rogueport, right? Apparently it's the vast fortune of that ancient, forgotten civilization... Most people think that's just a silly old myth now, of course. But not Wonky! According to my sources, it's the real deal. Huh? Who are my sources? Well, I can't really say, can I? That, my friend, is what's called a trade secret!" - Wonky
Well, the Ancients also created everything you see behind the Thousand Year Door, which means they probably also created the Crystal Stars.
"About Merlon on the east side of Rogueport and Merluvlee underground... Ol' Wonky hears they're from a strange tribe that names people by profession. So, for example, if someone did the same work as Merlon, they'd have the same name... So there could be Merlons all over. Don't you find that strange? Wonky does!" - Wonky
On a last side note, the Merlow, Merlin, Merluvlee, et cetera you see in games with the same name are not the same person. This explains why they look different in different games.
Thanks for the High 3-A explanation, makes sense to me.
And hey, you got to good theory there, I find it pretty convincing personally. Funny that all three games mention stuff about being predestined. I can quite see how the Ancients at least aided in the creation of the Star Rod (maybe created), but the Crystal Stars is a little loose on proof, but I can certainy see why it could seem the point.
As for Star Piece being made of actual stars... I doubt these shiny, pretty things are plasma, so... I'm going to assume they mean the more cartoony star. This is pretty good, actually, because if someone tries to debunk a Mario feat because stars are "star shaped" rather than glowy balls, we could just bring up that Star Pieces come from real stars, So yeah, good job with all you found!!
I didn't think that at first, either, but then I realised that Chakron said that the Dark Star is a cosmic threat. Being a cosmic threat could just mean destroying even the planet or something, but the biggest thing here is that Chakron is the one who said it, and it comes straight from the universe. The Dark Star is basically a threat to Chakron/The Universe, and while the Bros were incapable of damaging him at the time, they could've gotten stronger by the time they fought Dark Star, and Dark Bowser is powered by Dark Star, and so is Fawful, so the Bros and Bowser seem to scale that way.
Okay, going off of that statement, when you look in context, he states that as they cannot grasp his true form (sorry, not sorry), they are unenlightened, and therefore "that is why you are in a cosmic pickle." Indeed, being in a pickle means you have a problem. Well, what is this problem? Let's look in context, what problem was proposed?
Starlow says they need the Star Cure! This was used to cure the Blorbs, and so didn't really have much to do with the Dark Star, I'm not sure if this "cosmic pickle" is actually the Dark Star... Maybe I'm missing something...
As for getting stronger.... I mean, yes... but... that much stronger? I mean, Chakron is pretty darn strong...
I mean, RPG characters get insurmountably stronger all of the time. The SMT Protagonists go from being barely stronger than average humans to being like Multiversal+ or even High Complex Multiversal by the end of their games, mainly from training and levelling up, alone.
And there are parts where Chakron talks to Bowser and shows him his past and whatnot. I don't remember what he says in those moments, but he may also reference things about the Dark Star. And I don't entirely remember the context of the moment you're talking about, either. It's been awhile since I played Bowser's Inside Story. I think he was talking about the Dark Star when he said the thing about the cosmic pickle, and he just knew about it because the universe told him, not because of anything Starlow said.
Hmm, that's true actually. Plus, if we look as the stats as legitamate mesaures of power, we can see that Chakron's insane stats, are actually matched by ... let's call it Mega Dark Bowser, but not Dark Bowser himself . So, at face value, I'd say Dark Bowser can't exactly scale... It appears he can somewhat enter this form at will, he does required the Dark Star Core to maintain, and thus likely obtain, the form. However, a way to actually work with scaling, is that we see Mega Dark Bowser attack Bowser a few times, and Bowser is able to block his attack, and then later (like... watch for a few seconds to see), attack and damage him with a casual punch (not fully charged). Of course, to say he matches Chakron is to believe the stats are valid, which I have seen be debunked in numerous RPGs.
As for the part where "cosmic pickle" originates, well... I looked at some footage of the conversation, and it is basically Chakron complaining that he has been disturbed by the heroes, Starlow explaining their problem (screenshot), Chakron saying he's too busy and saying by looking up, they should know why (i.e. he's one with the universe), Mario and Luigi get nothing, so he complains they are unenlightened and this is why they are "in a cosmic pickle" in the first place. Considering the only problem mentioned here was that they needed the Star Cure he possessed, I don't see really why the Dark Star should be involved... As for him being one with the universe, so knowing of the Dark Star... perhaps. Starlow also mentions the Kingdom could be doomed, and... they left the Blorbs for a long time and it didn't seem to be spreading that far if I recall, so... perhaps the Dark Star could be related. But... looking at the conversation, the cosmic pickle does appear to refer to them needing the Star Cure.
Okay, I thought about it a bit. So the they want the Star Cure. It is the last Star Cure. It makes the Miracle Cure. Which not only cures the Blorbs, but also allows you to enter Peach's Castle to fight Fawful and the Dark Star. I think you know what I'm getting at from here.
So... I guess the Miracle Cure does have something to do with the Dark Star. This ties in with why Starlow stresses its importance, but... their problem is essentially still than they need it. Plus, if they are in such a "cosmic pickle" because they are unenlightened, what exactly does that mean? Would an enlightened Mario and Luigi be able to defeat the Dark Star? If we say "enlightened" as in "one with the universe" like Chakron, perhaps... but once again we should consider context, and he was saying it more as them being unaware of the meaning of his pose and how looking up will give them a hint, rather than anything to do with power or oneness... so... still not too sure....
Well, I don't think being enlightened is the means of achieving your goal. As Chakron uses the word, that usually means to achieve your goals sooner. In the case where he kept saying Bowser was unenlightened when teaching him to use the Chakroads, being unelightened did not necessarily stop him from doing it, it just made it harder.
The cosmic pickle that they were in was because of the problem being addressed, that the Dark Star needed to be taken down, and that the Star Cure was required to do so.
Yeah, that's actually quite a fair analysis, I suppose. But even then, we don't exactly have much to compare Chakron and Dark Bowser with (other than stats, but... not sure how valid a measure stats are), so... I don't quite see him at that level.
Yeah, I suppose so, but he did say that a ground shaking attack was required to change his position, so... generally feats concerning him are quite tricky to gauge. I guess them getting stronger could help, but we don't know for sure...
As for being a cosmic threat, if this is true, we don't know what kind of threat this is. The most we've seen of him was covering the Mushroom Kingdom in a storm. In other media, cosmic threats tend to be over time. For example, Buu was seen as Solar System level has whilst he is a threat to the universe... it's over time. He should be able to do so within the life time of a Shinjin (specifically the Elder Kaioshin), but... that's still over time. I guess Dark Bowser could be the same cause, especially considering he hasn't shown many major feats and no time scale was indicated. So... yeah.
I guess, but... as I said earlier, cosmic threat doesn't always equal universe level, and is usually over time. Granted, this should put Dark Bowser at a very high level, but... not quite on Chakron's level.
It's nice, although, keep in mind that this game is connected to the other Mario and Luigi RPGs, so the Dark Star should be superior to Cackletta and Princess Shroob, so depending on what's shown in those games, Kingdom threat might be small.
The kingdom threat part was just me seeing that in the research, so I just popped it there. The main part was the analysis. But yeah, they should be superior, although Dark Bowser did show a similar feat to Elder Princess Shroob. (I.e. he covered the kingdom in a storm , and EPS like... used a similar looking move but pink and never shown beyond that. But due to looking similar... I feel the two moves could be comparable)
But yeah, there does appear to be a chance he’a just talking about how they’re confused about his pose...
True. He does say about enlightenment a little earlier, but in the phrase "allow me to enlighten you", which is just a fancy way of saying "let me explain". It is probably him insulting them, as he's a little mad at them not understanding his issue, which appears to be the most likely explanation of the "cosmic pickle"...
I think the Koopalings and Fawful are enough to be considered major characters, but nice for the other ones! I didn't actually remember Lady Bow had reappeared outside that Capture Card cameo in SPM, so nice find!
Also poor me for not being able to find that Prince Peasley picture in Partners in Time. (speaking of which )
Well, the Koopalings stopped being used for many years from the point of the 2D platformer games to their short appearances in Superstar Saga, and then Nintendo just picked them back up again in New Super Mario Bros.
The specific part I showed Fawful in was a very small appearance in Partners in Time where the Bros for some reason don't recognise him from the last game, but he sells you beans and badges to raise money for what he will do in the next game. At the time he was shown right there, it was a second, minor appearance. XD
Lady Bow's appearance there was her and Bootler in Poshley Heights in the prolog to The Thousand Year Door. She was like my favourite partner from the first game, so I thought it was funny that she made a cameo in the second game, but no other partner did.
Also, I looked over that Elder Princess Shroob page, and I noticed her initial speed without scaling is merely Superhuman when she can actually move around and perform actions easily on a platform that, if I recall correctly, flies comparable to the speed of lightning.
Hmm, well... sure they had a hiatus, but the Koopalings were a well-established reoccuring group of characters back then, so their return doesn't quite feel the same way. I guess someone like Boom Boom could fit that shoe better though.
And, I suppose you're right about Fawful, seeing how small a role he had in the game. In hindsight when we know he was the main villain of Bowser's Inside Story, he feels like a more major character, but back when it was made, you'd be correct.
Hmm, I don't quite know which partner's my favourite, they're all pretty cool. Bombette was pretty cool to be for a while though, so... I guess she could count.
As for EPS' speed, well... that was actually Shroob Chomp, who I thought I'd just include. I put her at FTL speed. I only noted she was faster in case people disagreed with such a speed. As for the platform travelling at the speed of lightning... well... she was the one to raise it upwards, and there was never such a statement... And visually I don't remember that being the case, so... not sure where you got that impression, sorry.
Well, they're flying past storm clouds, and I don't remember whether or not lightning was shooting out of these storm clouds, but that's not my main point. My main point is that if they can move around and perform actions on the platform that they have reactions at least as fast as the platform is moving.
Oh good point there. It doesn’t even look like they parted the clouds to reveal the sun behind them, so maybe it’s a thing. It does look a little add in some shots though, I suppose, so I’m not sure if it’s a star, or just a brighter area of colour to draw attention to the centre... we do see forked lightning in the background in luigi’s special, however, implying the specials may have a connect to weather, this I guess this would be “sunny”.
EDIT: turns out the shots they look weird in are actually common for a lot of shots and likely just signalise where the balls are coming from, so I guess we can’t say it’s the “star” behind them, which is definitely sun shaped at the very least. At the same time, are we sure they created them? We can even sort of make out the headlights when Petey does his special, implying they don’t make some little realm for it to occur in... I also noticed clouds in Yoshi’s background, which could further imply a weather theme.
EDIT 2: when you look at DK’s special, you can kind of see the sun poking through the clouds. Then with Diddy, it appears like it is slowly increasing in brightness until it is directly behind him, so maybe it is the sun, just getting bright enough to be seen?
But they can do these specials in places that literally just have a black sky. Like, you're watching the video, you see the place that Mario performs his special? Anyone can perform their special in that place with the dark sky. Several specials definitely imply that what it is showing is indeed a sun, and if the sky is dark before performing it, then they're probably creating it.
Well, that is true, however for Donkey Kong's special, we can see the sun poking through the clouds that are darkening the sky just a bit (towards the top left, but only seen for a bit before it's covered by DK and the camera obscures it), so the sun is still somewhat visible. Meanwhile, Diddy Kong's special shows this sun getting brighter, implying it just might be getting bright enough for the clouds to no longer be able to cover it.)
Conversely, considering Luigi and Yoshi's specials, where lightning storms and dark clouds appear respectively, it could be implied a weather element is attached to some of the specials. In fact, this could explain why the sun getting bright enough to be seen: as they have the "sunny" weather attribute, as thus this is visible. Daisy also appears to have what could be snow, but looks more like her crystal particles.
Heh, perhaps (sorry for not replying, I didn't really know what to say for a while). I don't know if it's AP/creative potiential or just some weather-related hax though.
In terms of feats from the sports game, I did find this one , which Bowser, Wario and Waluigi take point-blanc and Mario, Luigi, Peach, Yoshi and Diddy are seen in the stadium too (the entire stadium, which I feel would be a large building, got warped and then engulfed by the blast radius!!). And what makes it even more impressive is that Bowser, Wario and Waluigi only fainted because they were acting . I know it's not as impressive as the ones you have, but... it's still there an is pretty cool
Also, in Mario Hoops 3-on-3, White Mage (based on the Final Fantasy Class) uses Holy Shot, and in Mario Sports Mix (great game, surprisingly), she outright uses Holy. Whilst the spell in multi-incarnate in its series of origin, it was seen as a proper spell (not just a move for battles) in FFVII, which was used to stop the Black Materia: Meteor.
Meteor was stated to harm the planet, and even destroy the entire planet, and yet Holy is seen as strong enough to stop it. And what was White Mage's special move again? Yep, Holy! So there is a chance she's using a spell that is seen as comparable to a planet harmed to planet busting spell on them. What's more, it doesn't even drain all the health of her opponent in the dodgeball campgain, and they continue with the sport with no sign of fatigue or the like. Plus, it seems the other specials are comparable to it, and the finisher they use on Behemoth appears even more powerful!
So... yeah, not High 4-C, but when you look at other feats from the sports game, they're pretty strong in their power right!
Hmm, so you're proposing Bowser was the one who ripped out the final page? Like... via plot manipulation rather than literally doing so? Or is this like the effect it had on Mamu [Wart before Mario 2] from Doki Doki Panic, if you know what I mean?
I mean, this does seem pretty accurate to the plot of the game, so I don't think he exactly changed it unless you're saying such a book was changed by Bowser. Considering he changed the story at the beginning, I guess that would mean it couldn't 'quite' be foretold, and thus he could have altered the text, but... I don't know exactly what you're saying here?
(also, the "evil king chortles", eh? Bowser, you trying to be Fawful?)
No, I'm proposing that Bowser changed the entire story, but since the ending was ripped out, he wasn't able to change the ending, so he lost. The book Russ T was reading was the book that they're in, and since it shows Bowser changing the story at the beginning and it originally had nothing to do with Bowser, Bowser literally changed the whole book that they're in.
I disagree with a lot of the stuff said there. The original Japanese text in the prolog disproves the wrong usage of the term "dimension". In the part where they said Dimentio will use the Dimensional Void to end all existence, all worlds, and all dimensions, they literally use the Japanese word "jigen", which is used solely when referring to spatiotemporal dimensions. "Sunpou" is the word "dimension" in Japanese used synonymous to "world" or "universe".
I said in the note at the end that that doesn't matter towards what is being said, but also agreed that The Void will destroy all dimensions: but only at full power. It wasn't at full power when it destroyed the Sammer Kingdom, as proven by the fact it only destroyed one "universe" and left its dimensions be. This contradicts those statements, so the "it will swallow [...] all dimensions" doesn't apply here.
EDIT: if you meant "interdimensional" and "dimensional door" and all that? Well... interdimensional is never used with duel-direction dimensions (or spatiotemporal, if you prefer) because it doesn't make sense. As for "dimensional door", well... then guess that would have to debunk the closest proof I could find to each chapter being in a different universe, and thus The Void is pretty weak at that point, because All worlds is the universe.
I don't know what those things say in Japanese, but if they are referring to them as alternate worlds instead of spatiotemporal dimensions, they will use the word "sunpou", which doesn't debunk that they used the word "jigen" in the prolog at a relevant time. And the Chaos Heart was far beyond the power of the full potential of the Dimensional Void, which the Pure Hearts are above.
Well, I only used dimension when it referred to a realm, albeit I guess one could say "dimensional door" is vague. I also admit the one used in chapter 1-1 is a bit of speculation, but considering the idea of Flipping hadn't been introduced there, and the rest of it gave no impression of foreshadowing, I felt that it made more sense that in takes place within many dimensions (with the location defintion. Seeing how I've seen people say these are universes, I guess I just wanted to validate their claim). So far, I've only seen the "jigen" argument for the "all dimensions" statement, and I've been using the most fitting defintion of dimension at the time.
As for Chaos Heart, well... I never reference that, so not sure why you're saying about that, but if you're saying The Void should be capable of destroying all saptiotemporary realms by Chapter 6, this is directly shown not to be the case [I got into why, but try not to use Mario, the party, Dimentio and Mr L being there as proof, as someone might say them moving in a dimensionless rift isn't unrealistic]. Plus, if it was fated to destroy all "jigen" in the same statement as all existence and "all worlds" (which may or may not be a universe), wouldn't you think it would do so together?
Who's wielding the ! Block? (It's from a weapons profile).
Edit: sorry, misread for a second. If possession isn't going to work, then it isn't really a Ghost Block in the end, more just a ? Block... which would once again require a wielder (because weapons profile)
Okay. Well, assuming the ! Block allows the human to wield it, they could provide many useful thing for the human to use, such as the Metal Cap for invulnerability, 10x weight gain and 10x strenght increase for limited time, or a Wing Cap to allow the human to fly, and therefore fight against Shelby midair. The Metal Cap will use useful again kiais and the Dragon Throw, and should be able to tank most attacks, I guess. It could possibilty used for its creation too, but other than giving the human platforms to use, I don't see much use to this ability. It should provide a good amount of items to the human to go toe-to-toe with Shelby though, I think.
If the human is not allowed to wield it, I guess it could take advantage of the punishing Bob-ombs and use them again Shelby, but... that's about it...
As for Ghost Block... unless it can one-shot Shelby, it's not got much of a chance... If we say it's a ? Block... hmm, not sure really, there is a load that can do as a weapon, so that would take a bit of thinking.
Using a Dragon Throw isn't very wise, considering they'd more than likely explode whilst he's preparing to throw it, haha. And the human should be able to react to the Bob-omb, since speed equalised, if he does throw it.
And limiting would change stuff, I believe. For example, I covered how the Metal Cap would be useful, and the Fire Flower, Vanish Cap and Cape Feather should also be useful too. Plus, he could essentially use the platform creation against Shelby, so.... yeah, I think it would change stuff.
fire flower bounce on the ground, metal cap is too heavy to even get to shelby, and jump on the platforms, vanish cap could not really get him up, cape fether can give him flight, platforms, dragon throw at round 2?
EDIT: and since thats for some time period, dont think so, tho
Fireballs have been shown off being still affective against aerial foes, and Metal Cap should allow the human to tank attacks from Shelby, and resist any attempts for melee attacks, with very effective counter-attacks. Cape Feather would fix the time limit for flight, and having platforms available for limtied time isn't too much of an issue, as it's more used as an extension of the weapon (to attack from unpredictable angles, suddenly, etc). It's kind of like how ki blasts only have one time use, but are still very effective for long range attacks.
As for round 3, unless Ghost Blocks can one-shot Shelby, I'd say Shelby takes a hit (due to speed equalised), gets a but then brushes it off as he sees his opponent shatter. I don't think its the style of the possessor to do on to possess other targets, so... in that way, Shelby's safe.
Oh, I thought we were discussing a regular Wiggler.
Well, if Destructo Disk didn't have a reputation of missing so often, it would be very useful.
Dragon Throw could work okay against a Wiggler, but he has lots of ways to counter attack. For example, whilst getting up close to grab it, it could poison Sherby! It would be a bit risky, and the damage output is generally minimal, so not much pay off.
Double Sunday, if I remember correctly, was the twin beam attack Raditz had... hmm, Wiggler could potentially dodge it, I suppose, but if not, it could be pretty usually.
Lots of these Dragon Ball moves have many potential uses, but Wigglers has many hax on their side, so it's really tricky to give a defined outcome.
well, sure, dragon throw would always work out in the end. It's just well.... it's that you grab someone, spin them, and throw them... that's about it... this Wiggler too could counter attack during the attempt to to grab it. And it wouldn't do much damage, really. And even punches can hit segments. I can't remember Explosion Wave entirely, just I don't think there are any DB moves that trip someone over, haha.
Round 1: Isle Delfino Wiggler seems outmatched by Shallare's powers, and Shallare could always use their gears to block the Wiggler's path, hit it on the head, and more importantly flip it (Which Gear Grinder appears to do)! Plus, if they can leviatate high enough, the Wiggler can't really even touch them. Generally, Shallare holds the advantage, even if Wiggler's regen was put into consideration. However, due to being able to make obstacles and trial, a cool opponent from Sunshine for Shallare could be Bowser Jr, because he's implied to be the one to create the Secrets, and their power is around the same.
Round 2: I'm assuming we're using Large Star level for both, so AP equalised. Not sure if 64 Wiggler has the same hax as other Wigglers or not, but if so, their hax should grant them an advantage, as Shallare is a little lacking in that regard. If we just go by what we've been shown, then... it's a bit of a tricky on. I can't say I know enough about Shallare in all to know how he'd fare, but... Wiggler might just have the capabilities to take the win.
"Then... it's a bit of a tricky on. I can't say I know enough about Shallare in all to know how he'd fare, but... Wiggler might just have the capabilities to take the win." is what I put, but I'm open to any counter-arguments.
he is good at creating obstacles that can help in the fight for him, even though, i dont have proof for it but i do have proof that there is a gear as an obstacle, so its possibly created by Shallare, or likely created by Shallare, so he must have been set up his own obstacles against the wiggler (you can see it in the link when trying to collect the symbol which says symbol near the obstacle or tile),
Oh yeah, danmaku could give him the edge. Perhaps Wiggler could use size manipulation make himself smaller (thus a smaller hitbox), but..... that isn't a gaurantee. Shockwaves Wiggler uses could be avoided by levitation (it's self-leviation, right?), I guess...